In this episode of the Electronic Specifier Insights podcast we will be talking to Jack Herring, founder of Jiva Materials, a sustainability start-up company that has developed the world's first fully recyclable printed circuit board (PCB).
Electronic Specifier Insights host, Joe Busht speaks to Jack Herring, founder of Jiva Materials about the world's first fully recyclable printed circuit board (PCB).
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Hello and welcome to the latest podcast from electronic specifier insights. Today we will be talking to jack Haring founder of Jiva materials, a sustainability startup company that has developed the world's first fully recyclable printed circuit board or PCB. PCBs made up about 8% of the 50 million tonnes of electronic waste that was generated last year. 18 billion square metres of PCBs are manufactured every year containing large amounts of precious metals. Currently, the only method of recycling PCBs involves shredding them down in incinerating them in order to extract the precious metals from within. Therefore Jiva materials is raising awareness around the inefficient handling of E waste, and has developed a new material to offer a solution to combat this the solea board, patent pending it is a flat space product is competitively priced, fully biodegradable, and a non toxic alternative. JACK, welcome to electronic specified insights I think a good place to start would be to explain how you initially came up the idea?
Sure. So the whole concept spent a lot of my time at the Royal College of Art, where I went to study my masters. Previously, I studied my undergrad in architecture, University of Kent, and it wasn't wasn't for me. So I went back to all my real interest was, which was product design. So my tutor at the RCA gave us a brief, which was choose a waste stream to try and optimise. So I was becoming aware quite quickly, that evil Ace is the fastest growing restroom in the world. And I've seen that personally just from the amount of waste that is producing and realising that is getting a bit out of hand. And obviously, within the waste or electronic waste sector, the proportion of that comes from circuit boards, or printed circuit boards, PCBs, a lot of our products now becoming smarter than our cord. So electronics are now finding their way into electrical waste stream. So you're getting these smart cat tours and things which are designed to to connect to your your smart home. And it's an increasing problem really. So being a designer, I decided to reinvent the circuit board from the bottom up. And this all starts from the actual board itself, or the printed circuit board substrate. And that's currently made out of fibreglass and epoxy resin. So they're very, very difficult to recycle materials. So I was looking at alternatives for those direct replacements. So the first change that I wanted to make was looking at natural fibres instead of glass fibres. These are not only biodegradable, but they're also they have a much lower carbon footprint, which is becoming increasingly important nowadays. And the biggest part of my development process was the fact that I wanted to make it and make circuit boards dissolvable in water. So that was the Eureka moment actually came while I was working on a Saturday job while I was studying. So I worked in the embroidery industry, where one very common piece of material that's used is a film which you lay on top of a piece of clothing before it's embroidered onto the machines. And then you can read from the water. So it's a water soluble material. So I thought, why can't I combine this with these natural fibres that I've been consuming some way to reinvent the material. And that's when I came up with what the what JIRA is now based around which is called Sony board. That was then taken to my shooters, I presented that to them as part of my final year project at the RCA and I was advised to file a patent right and get that file in time for the end of the year degree show which was actually filed on the same day as that show open so if our patent didn't go through that same day, I wouldn't have any had anything to do with the company on and so that was a very stressful time but very important as well. And often after that I was then invited to raise some pre seed investment through innovation RCA, which is the world College of Arts Incubator based in Battersea so as I was raised just over 50 k about coming up to three years ago now really so that then allowed me to meet my co founder Jonathan Swanson, he's been very important to help grow the company and get the products to the point of commercialization which we're approaching now. So company was founded off the back of an investment, September 2017. We recently closed the seed investment round which was led by sky ocean ventures Which is the VC, arm of sky, the telecoms company. So that was 750 k we raised in that round, which has allowed us to grow the team even more and really speed up our return market. We also are able to secure and innovate UK grants at the end of last year as well, that's a 30 month project. And that's focusing on being able to make solid borders in the UK and ironing out the supply chain and making sure that we can keep that green story throughout our whole supply chain and the products and looking at the ways that it can be recycled at scale, those sorts of challenges. So, yeah, I think, I think that's sort of a rough recap of, from the beginning up to where we are now.
Sure. You mentioned your, your co founders, it was his background.
He is a biochemist, he's worked for lots of blue chip, companies like shell Evonik. But he's been very important in the process of actually reinventing or tweaking the formulation of saw the board. So it can be as green as possible. Stay in line is our company's green ethos, this very important that we look at the materials that we're putting into our product very carefully, because we were trying to sell away 30, biodegradable, non toxic alternatives to this, this man made glassfibre income that material. So it's important that there's no or very as met as little impact on the immediate environment as possible, particularly after the recycling process, when you've taken advantage of our circuit boards and dissolved them in hot water. You don't need to think about how that wastewater is processed, what goes into the material itself, and whether there's any direct impact on the wastewater stream and other areas of that waste stream. So it's been very important these these been able to bring an element of science to support my Urban Design really say,
okay, sure, sure. And you mentioned at the start of the call the rapid growth of technology, and you know, products becoming smarter and things like that. So how rapidly is the problem of E waste grown over, I guess, the last decade or so as, as you know, as I say, you know, more has become smart and technologies has grown so quickly. So, you know, as this as this problem sort of spiked over the last decade or so,
I would say. So, last year, 54 million tonnes of electronic waste is generated, and it's growing at a rate of two half million tonnes every year, which will outweighs any other waste stream that you can compare against. So it's an increasing problem with this sort of disposable lifestyle, a lot of us are using days, yeah, we might buy us get a phone or ourselves into a contract for two years with a phone, we then renew our contract. And you're left with an old phone and the new phone. Most people just leave the old phone in a drawer or similar products of similar sort of life cycles like that. But people don't really think about what happened at the end of life, and they are eventually disposed off. I think the biggest problems come from just our decision not to repair things. Or a lot of the time, it's more economical just to go out and buy a new product to replace a product, which is usually perfectly fine. It's just one small part which, which needs to be replaced. But it's just impossible in the supply chain to actually get your hands on that on one replacement parts or get it repaired. So I think a supply chain is just as much to blame for that increase in waste, as anything else. Only 17%, about 17% of all of the waste that's produced is actually collected, or detracts from sort of collection to the recycling process. The rest of it's a loss along the way, whether that be illegal exporting to countries where it's been processed by hand and sold back onto the market or even people. Everyone's not to blame. But everyone contributes to the fact that we think we're doing the right thing, taking off waste products to the local recycling centre. And then the most economic thing for councils to do is to pay a third party to dispose of these products. And throughout that process. These things get lost at the same time. A lot of the precious metals and the value in these products gets lost as well. It's not just a an impact on the environment that we have to think of is the actual value that we're releasing throughout that process to lots of precious metals. Gold, Silver. palladium is a very important element which is used in the electronic world as well. So there was actually a report which came out, which was produced by the UN, because they got, it's called the Global e waste monitor. So that revealed, I think, is $10 billion worth of value, a potential market value of all material was attended 10 billion US dollars could be recovered from E waste, which is currently ending up in landfill or parts of that recovery is currently lost. And a lot of value there, which people could people can can make the most offer at the moment is just wasted.
Yeah, absolutely. On the on your website, I was reading about the the site in in Garner, presumably that's that's not an isolated location. Presumably, there's this locations as similar to tumours of that ilk cutting up all over the world is there?
Yeah, definitely. It depends which part of the world you're looking at really a lot of, sort of Western Europe, usually exports to Northern or from West Africa. Lots of the US is waste, for example, ends up in China or India, or a lot of a lot of places in Asia. I mean, Europe actually produces the most e waste in terms of per person. But it also has the best recovery rate. When you're comparing to other parts of the world. The US and Asia are the biggest contributors to the actual waste, because a lot of it isn't recovered. The biggest problem Really?
Sure, sure. And in terms of the material used in the Sanya board reading is, it's a flax based process. Now am I right in thinking that that's the same materials that goes into making rope?
Well, linen is flexspaces. Both textiles usually use Selenium by textile the made up flat. I'm not sure about rope, but possibly, yes, yawns, those sorts of products usually will come from that similar sort of that same family of products or clients, you've got flax, you've got juice, you've got hemp, they're all I think it's called that sort of products or last fibres, the AFP that we're focusing on flux, because it's got very good mechanical properties. And it's also very lightweight, though, our product is able to benefit from a lot of carbon savings. Because we're using flax, they have naturally lower weights, in terms of per square metre when you compare it to glass, so that therefore translates to carbon savings, because you're allowed to, you're able to ship more material in bulk for the same weight.
Yeah, yeah. So the just the manufacturing process different in any way, you know, if you imagine if you're manufacturing a PCB using this on your board with desert does it differently in when compared to a traditional manufacturing method.
So the production of the actual board itself is very similar to the way that traditional circuit board material was made. But we're using, as I mentioned before, pretty biodegradable, non toxic materials, the main target that we've set ourselves internally is making sure that our Sony board is compatible with the existing PCB production processes. So once you've made the actual board that is then usually shipped to electronics manufacturers, all PCB cases, and they will then put it through their standard fabrication process to produce the circuit boards. So we're making an effort to design our material to make sure that it is compatible with existing processes. I can't give away too much about how we actually make the material but it is a laminate material. So it's laser fibres combined with some polymer, which is then pressed together on the heat pressure. And that's very similar to the way that existing tools are made. As I mentioned, like the whole process and design process for trolling through when I was studying, I wanted to keep it similar as possible because thinking in a business mindset, it will make most sense for us to licence this technology out to producers of the existing material. So it can be made in those same factories just switching out ingredients as a light for like return.
Yeah, sure, sure. And likewise, how much easier does the recycling of the precious materials make it when when a PCB is manufactured with a solubilizes approach as opposed to the traditional process?
Well, the existing process of recycling involves incineration and shredding. So they usually take the container loads of circuit boards, shred them down into the fine dust and then The dust which comes from the actual board itself, which is usually the glass fibre and epoxy is burned and incinerated away. So you're then left with the the precious metals in in a very fine dusts, because our material allows you to remove the components in our whole form without having to shred the whole board down. There's a lot less wastage in that recycling process. So it's not only a much cleaner process, because you're avoiding those incineration processes and the carcinogenic and all of the nasty stuff that comes along with that you're also able to benefit in an economic economic way. Because you're, you're able to remove these components in their whole form without losing any of this voice to the burning process. So we're still working out the actual numbers there. But on paper, our side is increasingly better in terms of the process where we're working on the recycling process separately, but as I'm sure you can appreciate, we're trying to get a product out into the market first, and then throughout the lifetime of that product we're trying to, we will then optimise that recycling process. early early numbers suggests that it can't be better than the recovery rate. Sure, sure.
And how aware and how switched on is the electrical industry as a whole with regards to the waste problem. And as such, what's kind of the was their reaction been to London, I put up lights soluble coming onto the market,
we've had a lot of interest from a lot of different potential customers in different spaces. I mean, the the circuit board industry is immense. So we're just trying to focus on the aesthetic appliances and white goo, those sorts of products. LED lighting is also a big problem. And there's been a lot of lobbying in that space recently in terms of thinking, how that's disposed of in commercial spaces. So hotels, if someone refits the whole hotel, they usually just strip all of the LED lighting out in the end of in the skip. So they need to, we need to completely rethink this. This waste stream supply chain so that I think is now getting a lot more publicity in terms of on the government scale, is actually an inquiry going on at the moment within the UK Parliament, which is being held by the environmental Audit Committee. And that's all about trying to implement a circular economy for electronic goods and those those sorts of those sorts of products. I think that's partly because of Brexit, the government's aware that's a big directive called the weee directive. So that's why he issues waste electrical and electronic equipment. That is an EU directive. So they're trying to come up with a viable way of having a UK based directive or sets of rules or laws, which will allow us to keep up with the targets that's been set by that EU alternative. So it's definitely a problem which is becoming more and more publicised, what I would really like to see happen is people become aware of the waste issue as they have become aware of the plastic issue in the past few years, because there's actually a bigger problem. It's just hidden away in, in the inside the bottle product folks who don't see your see the actual problem in person can make a direct choice to not buy a plastic bag, but don't have a choice of what goes in to technology. So it's very difficult to have a direct impact if you're just a consumer. Sure, yeah.
I was noticed I was listening. So moving forward, what are the what are the key challenges for you guys operating in a sector like like electronics? Is it sort of just purely around raising awareness around the issue? Or is it run through a deeper than that,
I mean, we have lots of technical hurdles, because we're trying to do something completely novel and new, which hadn't been done before. But one thing I've always been quite keen about is enforcing the lobbying of these directors and because fundamentally is bound to the collection of these products and how they're handled at scale, which is going to help us improve or tackle the problem, which is us at the moment. So the UK is actually one of the worst in Europe in terms of the illegal exporting of waste aboard so I heard one interesting stat which is that I think is seven out of 10 compressors on fridges. So you know the, the compressors with the harmful refrigerant gases in the back of the refrigerator. And only three of those 10 are actually actually effectively reach the The recycling centre, they're usually removed. So we'll come by waste metal collectors. So a huge amount of gases and harmful carbons, gases similar to carbon actually released in the UK, or the London atmosphere every year. So I would say that the the biggest issue is going to be the whole reformation at that supply chain and the circular economy and the take vaccines, which needs to be implemented by bodies, electronics and electrical equipment manufacturers.
Indeed, and so looking at a roadmap going ahead, I mean, are you guys looking at the UK, you know, rolling out in the UK first, and then of course, scaling up from there, or how you sort of taking it to market going forward?
Okay, in Europe, I would say make up the majority of our our interest that we're getting at the moment, our roadmap is constantly changing, depending on the types of potential customers that are approaching us, we get, we've also got some very big American companies, which have found us as well. So it's going to be a global scale, really. But I would say, initially, we were always targeting Europe is our first area to tackle because the infrastructure of take back schemes and circular economies is a lot better in this part of the world. In order for companies to actually benefit as much as possible from our technology, there needs to be some sort of payback scheme in place. So one, one good example is with sky ocean ventures, they've introduced us the skies, technical team, so we're now working with their engineers to potentially integrate our material into their supply chain. And with sky products. When you sign up for a contract, you'll get your satellite box sent out to you, you don't actually own that box that's taken back by sky at the end of the contracts where it's then dismantled. And each part of the product is then sent away to its own individual waste handling scheme. So at that point, so the board PCB could be used for a product like that, and it could then be recycled in the optimal way. So I think they were they were coming up with this completely novel, material when technology we need to have that, that handling in place in place to fully benefit from the savings, the carbon savings and waste reduction material would then allow companies to benefit from
sure I see. I see. And are you very much unique in the market? Or is there any Is there any other company out there trying to do a similar thing?
As far as we know, we're the only we're the world's first manufacturer of fully recyclable, PCB substrate alternatives for different recycling processes of the existing PCB. But pretty much everyone that I've come across that involves that shredding process, which is where a lot of the value is lost. So people trying to separate the shredded metal from the shredded glass fibre and eating water is a good solution, short term, but I think we need to completely redesign the material or that that area of the supply chain from the bottom up creating. Sure,
sure, and with a sort of an eye on the the current situation, have you guys managed to, you know, tackle the whole COVID issue we were able to, you know, carry on with your, with your plans regardless, or were you impacted at all by
Well, you
know, what's going on the rest of the world?
If anything, we've been busier, to be honest. I think we, the fact that we were able to be reached the last 25 of the postcode lottery screening challenge, sent a lot of digital interest our way, we've had a lot of potential customers find out about us, just purely because I guess, people have been working from home, they're more they have more time in front of their laptops, and they're just browsing a bit more. So we're doing that that general startup thing is applying to competitions, grants, guys been great in terms of generating traction for us as well as the big the big mouse thing, a lot more interest was the centre away off the back of them because it's great having a name, a company of that size supporting you. So I think that was the biggest breaking moment for us for us for the past year. And we were very lucky the fact that that even that that happens pretty much a month and a half before the whole COVID thing hit and the whole lockdown started. So we've been very good at working remotely and the rest of the team are very used to it anyway, so Not too much has changed for us really.
And just looking ahead to the next, you know, 12 months or so what, what's the next big milestones on the horizon for you guys?
Well, we need to get a product out onto the market to some, some contracts with customers. At the moment, we're working with quite a number of potential customers, looking at their design portfolios, getting our hands on some of their designs and making sort of direct alternatives to their existing products using our products. And so what we need to do is put those products through testing, get some contracts in place and help to re think their whole supply chain if that if we're allowed to have that influence. on that, I would also say that we need to make sure that our material is fully specified the market because it's a very specific product that we're manufacturing. And there's very specific rules, laws and regulations that we need to put our material through very comprehensive set of tests that we need to be involved in and make sure that we have a lot of data to support the shift that we're making. So as I mentioned, and we were able to grow the team were able to bring Steve Curtis, he's not on the website, but on the LinkedIn gv page, you can, you can see a couple of the guys that we brought on board. So you've got a lot of experience and I think experience in the PCB industry is going to be key to making sure we can get through that process where we can bring people on board to some of the hurdles to what we're facing. So it's going to be very important. Sure, sure.
Thank you jack for joining us today. If any of our listeners have any follow up questions on geven materials then please drop us a line at George Bush at electronics specified.com and we will get them answered for you. In the meantime, stay safe and please look out for the next instalment electronics specifi insights podcast
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